click around, see what you find
Click on any image to view closer!
Nic: To start things off, why don't you tell me about yourself?
Chloë: My name is Chloë Walker. I am an artist. I currently live in Williamsburg in Brooklyn. I went to Skidmore College and was an art history major there. And I've just always loved creating art. I'm really like a three-dimensional person, I like sculptural stuff. But I also have fun with, 2D painting, drawing, all that good stuff.
When I'm not doing my own art, I do studio assistant work for a couple other artists. So just like helping them out with getting their big visions completed. And then I also do my own like sex work and I work at PUMPS in Brooklyn.
Nic: Sweet. Talk to me about that relationship with 3D sculpture art. How'd that start and how'd you get into it?
If you fancy listening to this interview, click here!
Chloë: Yeah, I always say it's like a weird fascination I have with having something that's like in your universe. I love like props and I love like creepy animatronics. Like in Disneyland, all the stuff that's so fake but is set up to be real and is real and it's in your universe technically, but it's also super like plastic and manmade. I just think it's really fascinating.
It's just such a weird, almost like this, like uncanny valley, I just like these objects that you're creating to be part of the human world, if that makes sense. And you can interact with 'em in a different way than you can look at a painting or look at a photograph.
Nic: How do you relate to the uncanny valley when approaching your work?
Chloë: I feel like uncanny valley is such a buzzword now, in like the art world for sure. But I think it does relate to my work. It's this sort of just uncomfortable space of almost real, but then not quite. And again, it's real in the sense that it's physically existing in our space, and you can reach out and touch it. Your brain can see it as, oh, that's a human face, that's a human body. But it's just not quite 100% correct. And so it's a little bit off and confusing and it makes you pause and feel a little uncomfortable. And I really enjoy that a lot.
Nic: Yeah, definitely. That uncomfortability can allow for like more room for thought too.
Chloë: Totally. It's like that moment of pause where you're like, okay, I have to think about this a little bit harder than just what my brain immediately goes to.
Nic: Totally.
This is visible in multiple of your pieces, but talk to me about the kind of crossovers you do between animals and then the female shape.
Chloë: Yeah. So I feel like a lot of my art is very figurative and is very based on the female body and the sexualization of that. And I think I've always been really fascinated by this idealized, objectified, fantasy version of the female body. So with that, I have been mixing it with different animal parts, it's like this objectification and like an animal-ification of the body, to make this like mythical creature, this ultimate fantasy. Not real, but based out of reality and based out of years and years of history of male storytelling about these mythical creatures, and bringing them into our current space.
And doing so in a way that again brings the uncanny valley back in. Where you understand that it's supposed to be a human, but then it also has like bug legs and you're like, oh, she's really hot. But I'm also grossed out by it. And this sort of pause where you really have to think about how this being in front of you -- this creature's body, and physical shape, and physical presence in your space -- makes you feel.
Nic: Absolutely.
You were touching on it right there, but working with the feminine as both an ideal and a physical kind of shape, has this shown you any kind of glaring societal misunderstandings toward the feminine?
Chloë: It is a tricky question 'cause I feel like a lot of it is like, oh, by doing this work you are adding to the objectification of women or the objectification of female bodies. And I think that yes, that's true, but I think it's different when it's coming from someone who's like choosing to do that themselves.
It's just a different opinion. It's the same way that you could be like, oh, you're a stripper that's not feminist of you. But I argue differently. So it's a tricky subject, but I like to think of it as: I am both the artist and I do normally use my own like face cast for the sculptures, they're kind of different versions of me. So I'm not speaking for all women. I could never do that, but I'm speaking from my own ideas and my own place, making the choice to objectify myself and my body through objectifying these sculptures and putting them in a gallery space where everyone's staring at them.
Using myself in as example and therefore not hurting other people, you know? Letting that be something for people to respond to and think about. But yeah, you know, there's definitely been some critique for sure.
Nic: Yeah, you're acting in a somewhat extreme place, in that you're very much willfully engaging with that. And how has that experience been? It takes a lot of agency on your part to engage with that.
Chloë: I totally agree. It's all about agency and it's all about choosing to put myself in that position or choosing to be vulnerable in that way, and camping it up and exaggerating it and like really leaning into it. Because, it already exists in the world and it's so prevalent in everything in society, no matter what: women's bodies will be sexualized. And there's not really anything that can stop that as of right now. And I think leaning into it and using it to your own personal win is, one could argue, one of the only ways that you can engage with it positively.
Even if it's like a front of engaging with it, just to engage with it. But in reality, there's a deeper understanding, you know?
Nic: It's a similar place to that uncanny zone, right? Where you're engaging with the extreme head on and then that causes this kind of double thought in a way.
Chloë: Yeah, totally. A lot of my pieces are super sexualized and like horny, but then they're also kind of gross and off-putting and discomforting. When you mix those two things together, it like again gives you that pause moment and you have to think about like, oh, why is this caterpillar woman turning me on?
That's just 'cause in so many other different ways, society conditions people to think that way.
Nic: Yeah, absolutely. Do you find this exploration on your part in pursuit of an answer or do you find yourself just pursuing this exploration in itself?
Chloë: I've definitely asked that question myself and have been asked that question a lot, but I absolutely don't have an answer. I would love to maybe one day, figure out. But I don't even know if there is an answer. I think I'm really interested in like the nature versus nurture of it.
Like, I've always grown up loving this girly, sexy, like idealized aesthetic. Is that because that's just like who I am as a person, or is that because I played with Barbies when I grew up? Like how much of that is something that's inherently me, as part of my personality, and how much of that is the nurture aspect of it?
And I really don't know. I have no idea. I'm trying to figure it out.
Nic: Yeah, I wanted to turn to this idea of nature versus nurture. It's very pivotal to how you approach this work. As you mentioned, you don't feel tugged one way or the other. And then that kind of uncertainty, how does that make you feel as an artist?
Chloë: It's tricky because it's obviously a sensitive subject and I'm never trying to offend. But, it's very unsure and it leaves a lot of things open-ended, and so sometimes it's hard to give like an exact answer about like, oh, this means this. Because a lot of times I'm creating to make a product that creates a reaction. I know what my reaction is to it, but I don't necessarily know what the rest of the world's reaction is gonna be to it. And I think that there's something very interesting in that because again, everyone in the world has their own nature versus nurture going on. It just depends how you engage in society, you're gonna have one opinion or the other.
Nic: Definitely.
This question, it's at the heart of our magazine and what we're approaching, but why do you think people make art?
Chloë: This is something that I'm really interested in. I could be making art or I could be writing theory about it or I could be choosing not to engage at all. And then this whole aspect of something that I'm interested in that maybe someone else isn't interested in, would just kind of disappear and not exist.
It's important to make art about things that are not just necessarily decorative, although love a little decorative piece of art, but also are working towards a bigger picture of like inclusivity and just like care for other people, you know?
There's infinite amount of ways to do that. But I think if you are a person that is specifically moved to do so, it's important to do it.
Nic: Yeah, I completely agree. You mentioned theory on art. Do you think there's like a strict divide between the theory versus the practice of art?
Chloë: I don't think so. I read my pretentious feminist literature and just all that kind of stuff, but I, also don't agree with 100% of it. I'm sure that those writers wouldn't agree with 100% of my work. I think that it's just a different way of exploring. The people who are writing are better at using words and writing and language, and I feel more comfortable using visual explanations.
Sculpting objects feels like a better way for me to figure out the questions that I'm trying to figure out. So they, they have to play into each other for sure, but it's just like a different language.
Nic: Awesome. As an artist, how has community helped your journey?
Chloë: It's super important. As an artist, it's not only you learning literal techniques from other artists, which is important, but also talking about things like this is difficult. And it is so important to be able to discuss this with other people and share your ideas and hear other people's feedback, helping each other understand your own work better.
You can make art because it's fulfilling for yourself, but also, I think it's important to share with the world, if you are exploring something that [relates] to the rest of the world.
